The Current State of E-commerce as an Affiliate | AWeurope 2016
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The Current State of E-commerce as an Affiliate | AWeurope 2016


So thank you very much for being here.
Thank you very much for coming all this way quite some considerable
distance with several of you. It’s great to have you. Okay, so first question. I
think I’m gonna ask is, we’re going to kind of start from looking at this from
a purely affiliate perspective and then move over to kind of product side of
things at a later date. So the first question, the title of this panel is
the current state of e-commerce as an affiliate, so I’m just going to ask you,
do you think that e-commerce is a vertical that affiliates should be
looking at? Why is it better than doing sweeps or doing lead generation or
whatever? Feel free to take it take it in turns, I’m sure you all
have different perspectives. It’s definitely working, it’s working
for a lot of our merchants on the Shopify platform, it’s working in
general. We’re seeing lots of success with organic traffic, we’re seeing
success through different app traffic and different shopping tools
that are out there, but yeah there’s a lot of affiliates out there making a lot
of money and I think there’s a lot more opportunity out there to be had.
Yeah, I think it it definitely depends on what an affiliate is looking for right. If an
affiliate is happy with the current state of what they’re doing, fine,
so be it. But if somebody wants maybe a little bit more of a different kind of
business model, where they’re building maybe an asset of their own, then
now is a fantastic time to do that. There’s so many different
companies and platforms, which you can kind of use to easily get into an
e-commerce kind of model, so yeah I would say there’s no better time to do it. For
me, I feel like every business has an affiliate marketing
program now. So you can kind of pick and choose. Almost any product I use
has an affiliate program. So for a blogger, it’s great. I can go from hair
extensions to nail polish to makeup and really still be able to be authentic and
genuine, without having to compromise a brand. So for me it’s perfect.
Cool, so it’s interesting because one of the things that I see in e-commerce,
affiliates, a lot is that they’re using very non-standard forms of traffic
generation. Certainly from my point of view as a hardcore buy traffic
from a major DSP’s and our Facebook and then push offers through it,
there’s a lot of interesting sources of traffic. So where are you all
seeing the best kind of return on investment coming from a
traffic point of view? Is it Facebook? Is it organic? Is it social?
For me personally, I spent probably the past year building my Instagram following.
Just for me, I love photography, I love creating unique content. So that
platform was the best for me. I have the link to my website in my bio, so
that’s my number one source of traffic. Second would be search engine
optimisation, I really work hard on creating unique tag lines that kind of
will find me the right person. So, best organic lipstick if you Google that, it’s
broad enough to find the right person without being too
over-saturated to get lost in Google. For me it’s both, just Google,
search engine and Instagram. Yeah for Teespring as a whole, we’ve gone from a
very sort of Facebook-dominant traffic source, I think it was like 90%,
high 90’s was from Facebook. We realised that that’s not sustainable, so
we’ve been diversifying ourselves. Teespring now is at that stage where
we’re getting millions of people each month, coming on looking for products on
our platform. So now we kind of transition from this only receiving
traffic, from paid traffic to people actually coming like
they would on Amazon to look for products. So it’s becoming a bit of a marketplace
for us now, 20-30% of our traffic now is from us you know all
from Teespring generated traffic, which is fantastic but we’re also seeing a lot
of other sort of platforms, like Pinterest and Instagram. Those are becoming
more sophisticated, so where it was two years ago, just Facebook, now it’s
becoming a lot more diverse. SEO, all sorts of things, but yeah I’d say it’s
it’s still predominantly Facebook but it’s kind of diminishing.
So a lot of the different brands that I’ve worked with in the past, they’re seeing a
lot from different Facebook groups, we’re seeing a hell of a lot through
basically niche sites, long-tail keywords in organic and and sites built
completely around a certain theme, or set of products, review and comparison. And
then I think for the Shopify affiliate program, it’s a little bit of B2B. We’re
seeing a lot more than that, we’re seeing things like education and courses as
well, interesting. So what about the, a question specifically for Bonnie,
Shopify affiliate program itself. Where are you seeing the affiliates
driving traffic from that? I’m sorry the $2,000 payout thing. Yeah, heavy organic, heavy niche sites that are either compare us to other e-commerce providers or sites
that are kind of focused on software in general, or different technology or even
marketing or social media marketing and then also we’re seeing education. Courses
and instructors and mastermind groups, a lot lead through Facebook and
then we’re also seeing affiliates have a lot of success with their own personal
network or their existing company. Yeah, we’re seeing a little bit of
everything right now. Even even things like, knitting instructors and
they’re teaching other knitters, maybe they’re on Etsy or another store right now.
Like how to be successful with their knitting business, so then they also kind
of guide them into like a solution that’s right for them and how
to be successful in business. Yeah, this is one thing that I’ve seen quite a
bit, is a lot of educators in particular seem to be getting a lot of
their income from affiliate products. I know a lot of the
educators in the IM space do this, with like hosting products and so forth. So
that’s you seeing a lot of growth in that. Yeah, we’re seeing growth in that.
There’s also a lot of affiliates are concentrate on video and then just to
go back to e-commerce, also seeing an early success with Instagram as
well and like coupon code tracking, just through Instagram. You don’t even need a
link up there. That was actually something that I wanted to ask you about,
Amanda, that is Instagram, how do we do it? How do you use that as an affiliate
because you don’t have the easy capability to embed links. Yeah,
I always think it’s funny when people copy and paste their affiliate links in
Instagram that you can’t click. I’m like no one’s gonna sit there and type it in
or copy and paste it. So for me, affiliate marketing on Instagram I like to keep it
really clean, really simple. You can also link in your bio, so that’s a clickable
link. So if I do a post, I do a lot for a 100% Pure which is
a Shopify merchant. So if I do a review on organic lipstick, then I’ll put
in the caption, new blog is up, link in the bio. So then they can
click that link and then like Bonnie said, nowadays sites like ShareASale, you
can actually keep track of your coupon code. So I’ll have the Organic Bunny code
and ShareASale will keep track of that for me. So you don’t have to click
anything. So Instagram, coupon codes, linking in the bio and then I also have
a link on my blog, just the shop tab, so people will ask me questions like where
do you get your favourite mascara and I’ll say, oh have you seen my shop tab?
You can go there and I have a list. So the,n more links, so you kind of
direct them to the links from Instagram. That’s something I’ve seen a few
people doing at the resources tab. Yeah. Just drives an awful lot. Craig, you were
talking about Pinterest now, I have never ever managed to get anywhere with
Pinterest, so tell us how are they doing it? It’s kind of a bit of a secret
actually. Good. So we’ve been working with one of our top sellers, what we call this sort of affiliate would be a seller to us. To test our Pinterest, because
Pinterest is becoming more and more sophisticated, like I said and in the
last two months the biggest seller on Teespring was Pinterest, which was
mind-blowing. I can’t say too much. All I can say is that things are coming, so
keep an eye on Pinterest that’s definitely gonna be a platform too. But
when you’re thinking about Pinterest think about the
demographic. It’s mostly sort of female, so don’t sell certain things via
Pinterest obviously, but yeah it’s a completely different for Facebook but
it’s definitely still ramping up and that’s gonna be one to watch out for. I
have a question. How do you get, you know, you’ll see these Pinterest bold
font and they get more pins than others. Yeah. Is that an algorithm?
It’s too complicated to go into here but yeah. So you’ll never be able to do it?
I should really listen in on this conversation. Yeah, it’s really complicated. It would be like 10-20 minutes. I think my tip for Pinterest would be to keep your
caption very simple. So, again organic, clean shampoo or best
working. So just right to the point, also a really high-quality image that kind of
captures the attention and just really clean font. Okay, so my next question
so far, e-commerce affiliate sounds amazing, we should all sign up.
So obviously it is never that simple. What are the biggest challenges that you
see, either your affiliates having or that person who isn’t an affiliate,
working in the e-commerce space. Sure I think with any affiliate program,
it’s making sure that you’re only working with affiliates that are adding
value to your existing marketing efforts. And part of that I think requires like
having a little bit of a thick skin, and kind of knowing what you’re looking
for and staying along those roads, while still having an open mind to
different new ways of working. Monitoring fraud, malware, adware that’s kind of
bundled up with certain sites, force clicks, things like that.
The big hurdle is always getting people started, like recruiting
comes to me. I think it’s a little bit easy. What sort of challenges
do you see affiliates facing on the other side of that?
What sort of hurdles and challenges do you see affiliates hitting?
Because you know how it goes. You recruit 100 affiliates,
I’m sure it’s the same, like one of them finally makes it
through. So what stops the other 99? Honestly, my gut feeling, it’s
sometimes people are still kind of working on their strategy, sometimes they’re working
on 16 other projects at the time. I feel like some of our really successful
affiliates are ones that have either help through outsourcing, like content
help, things like that or just kind of on a strict schedule. Some of
them have several employees, we’ve seen our affiliates grow, even in the
last two years. They start out as a one-man shop and now have five employees.
So I think really just kind of making a plan for what you want to
do to get started and actually roll it out. I think a lot of people
have ideas but executing it is a different thing. Yeah absolutely and
I think that’s particularly the case in the e-commerce space because the payouts
tend to be higher, so there’s more work that you have to put into gaining a
gaining a single lead compared to something like an app install, where you just
have to get someone to click one button. These people are signing up for
six months billing and they’re having to sell someone
on the idea of a shop or a physical product or something similar.
Craig, well what about you, what would you say the big hurdles are?
I would say our world is, when we say affiliate, a seller right. Somebody who’s coming and
wants to start an e-commerce business, Teespring is probably the best
place to do that because everything’s done for you, all you need to do is
create the design and sell it. It’s that simple, we do all the customer
service, fulfilment, everything, the fraud protection. So for us it’s
super easy and the only thing that’s difficult about that is
coming up with the ideas. A lot of people are maybe super analytical
but not super creative. They can’t come up with a cool
shirt design, so the guys that we see do really well are guys that have sort of
that dual brain that creative side, sort of designer, with a bit of an analytical
marketing mind. Or we see people partner up, one guy’s the one side, one
guy’s the other side, and that does really well. So I think from us, the
biggest challenge to people, why people don’t kind of get through that first
hurdle, first $100,000 or whatever is that
maybe it’s just a little bit daunting like having to
create your own product and sell it. It’s a different mindset change, so I think
I’ve seen guys come from the affiliate world and they’ve given it a
go, and some of them have just completely kind of transferred over and that’s
great, but some people kind of fall at the first maybe 5-10 campaigns and
don’t give it a go. They don’t give it enough time, that’s what I see. Yeah.
I think from my perspective, keeping it always current or new ideas. A lot of
bloggers I follow post the same things over and over and you’re like okay, I
know you drink that protein shake, I know you drink that tea but I don’t want
that. So now, what else do you have to show me? I really try to
talk about so many different things and I think staying authentic is super
important. No one wants to follow someone that’s constantly pushing like a waist
trainer or something that’s not genuine. I never post anything
that I don’t really love and use and I think that my readers can sense that and
tell it’s believable. I also think it’s really important to break things down, so
not to be too broad when you’re talking about things. Just one thing
at a time, so if I’m talking, if I have a full face of makeup on, I could say
oh check out all these different products but the consumer that’s
overwhelming and they shut down, so one thing at a time. So I’ll talk about
lipstick one day, then the next day I’ll talk about maybe a highlighter, or a
new shampoo, or a body wash. So really just constant, new topics to talk about. I
think is something that other affiliates struggle with and I really try to be
genuine at all times, engaging with my audience, what do they like, what do they
want to know about. I’m just really keeping constant, creative, unique content.
Which is a hell of a grind. So on that subject of unique content, I
was surprised to hear the mention of SEO because I think a lot of affiliates have
been involved in SEO back in the day, and there is kind of a strong perception
that these days starting a new SEO site, authority site is almost impossible and
clearly, it’s not. So what are you seeing, what are you thinking
is the, the approach to SEO in 2016? If you want to go into that from an
affiliate mindset. I don’t even know how I got good at it, I was just reading, a
lot of YouTube watching, and I have all these different widgets installed in my
WordPress. So I just do a lot of tagging on specific terms. So that’s totally
separate, obviously than my Instagram but it’s still really important for people
that are searching those phrases or people maybe that want to try a new
brand, and they want kind of a first-hand review on it. I like offering that
perspective to the consumer that they can come and look for a certain brand of makeup and get my personal review. I
just think that’s really beneficial. Great.
Yeah, SEO is an interesting one, like I said before we were very reliant on
Facebook. Now we have this thing called Sold By Teespring, which is basically that we
have a marketing team of SEO experts doing SEO for you. So if you’re launching
your campaigns on Teespring and you’re putting them in our marketplace, behind
the scenes it’s actually a bunch of people doing that for you. So you don’t
really need to do it yourself. It’s getting a lot more sophisticated,
you just tag your campaigns by whatever niche they’re in and we do a lot of that
for you, but saying that we have seen a couple of sort of outlier campaigns, where
people have done SEO. For instance like if it’s a big event or something like that
and some people search for it, it’ll come up. So I don’t
know exactly how they do it but we have seen those kind of exceptional campaigns
that do rely a bit on SEO, but I would say generally speaking, it’s definitely
making a comeback. Yeah well one thing I’ve done a few
times is, if you’ve got something like an event that whether the keyword hasn’t
been mined at all, and then you can just jump in while it’s still new and
fresh. It’s still very, very easy to that. And for an affiliate it’s really important,
because your whole thing is to convince them to buy it. For me
my consumer’s gonna go look for more information before they buy because
Green Beauty is such a sketchy market. Girls are interested in it but not
really, they kind of want to read more about it. So for me it works really
well just because they do want that additional information, it might not be
as beneficial to something else where they’re not researching it.
Or where it’s moving slower. Yeah. What about from your perspective?
Yeah, absolutely. In my personal view, I don’t think SEO has ever gone anywhere. I think there’s
been other strategies and campaigns that kind of garnered more attention or a more
hip and cool, but as an affiliate manager the last ten years, I personally seek out
people that own all the organic rankings and have like authentic, genuine,
beautiful, content-rich sites and the reason is, because very often though
they could be a first touch point for a new customer. So the
customers they bring these programs are valued at more, which means I can pay
them more money. And then also just with them
having that kind of reach, we can work closer together in terms of maybe
we can help them push out certain kind of content to like educate their readers
even further with making their decisions. So I don’t think SEO has ever went
anywhere, it’s just become harder. It really is, I mean it’s definitely harder and it’s very competitive, but I think if people
are really concentrating on the long haul here and really owning
their space, and owning a brand, and having an identity and something honest
to say, those are some of the top earners of the last like ten programs I’ve looked at.
This kind of gently leans us towards the more long-term idea and kind
of ties in to what Ryan was saying earlier about building a brand and
building an identity. Obviously SEO authority sites are one of the places
where you can use the kind of techniques Ryan was talking about, and work with an
affiliate mindset. So from your point, from your perspectives, in 2016 building
a new brand, I mean it’s so crowded out there. How did you do it,
how would you do it? I’ve been blogging probably since 2009, I just
started before the real huge blogging train took off. I just wanted to learn
how to make a website, I wanted to learn search engine optimisation, for the past
10 years that blog went nowhere. It was just too saturated it was just
about fashion and makeup in general and it wasn’t my passion, so I kept thinking
I have to think of something else. It’s just fashion and makeup, it’s too
saturated. So these days you have to find something that’s not over-saturated or a
way to do it better or different, because if you’re just gonna start another
beauty blog, I mean the chances of you taking off are going to be really hard,
unless you have a huge budget to buy a PR firm, a marketing firm, a
photographer. So I think finding your place that’s your passion, something that
you can get up every day and work on and build, something that’s unique something
that’s not been done too much, and then working at it non-stop. So I built my
brands by just working non-stop, I would get up every morning, I was like I’m not
gonna go to sleep until I have 100 new followers. So I started I think at
900 followers is when I really was like, I have to get this going, I want
to quit my job, I don’t want to do this, I don’t work for other people. So every
day, I would just engage. I’d go to pages that I was interested in. Brands that
I like to shop from, I would go to their Instagram find 100% pure makeup company,
and I’d look at the customers that were shopping, oh I just got this product I
love it. I go to their page, comment on their stuff, so I was always engaging
with the person that I wanted in my community. I literally hand made my
community and that’s why my blog has done so well, it’s because there are girls
that love exactly what I love. I hunted for them and now we’re friends, so my
community is just really strong. I think building a solid community,
just slow and steady, be patient, you don’t need to rush it, I think an
authentic following is so much more beneficial to building a brand.
And it’s interesting because that’s almost the complete antithesis of
the affiliate idea. We’re gonna target a million people at once and
you’re like, no I’m going to target one person at once. Yeah. But that yours is
not the only huge brand I’ve seen built that way, and people at the actress
Felicia Day, her massive brand. She was literally, again, targeting individual
people and saying hey, you should watch my film.
Because it’s also word-of-mouth. That person’s
into green beauty, well they probably have a sister or a best friend and
they’re gonna be hey, look at this website, I love this girl, I’m
gonna follow her. So many people now follow me because of friends and
word-of-mouth ,and that’s the best customer you can have.
Yeah, I’ve been having a similar experience with my product right now. I’ve been doing
personal support and that has actually probably been the most effective growth
strategy I’ve had. So Craig, what do you have to say about that?
Yeah I think for us, it’s like my philosophy at Teespring is,
building a brand takes a long time right. Like Apple was not overnight, it takes a
long time to build that brand and I’d say take it in phases,
like the whole point of Teespring is that you can come and use that lean
startup model. Test it out, get there, build your brand, build your
Facebook page. We’ve seen a lot of people build really big Facebook pages.
Using Teespring, they kind of send their traffic to a Teespring
landing page and and all of that and they get their bio-data and stuff like
that. But what they do after that is then, kind of use, there’s different levels. So
level one is start testing it out, build some traction. Level two is then start building more of a presence within the
Teespring ecosystem, so have your own storefronts. All your
campaigns in the store that says your brand on it, custom URL, which we can do
for you and then the third phase is some people come and build their
own thing and then use Teespring for fulfilment. So that’s kind of an upper sort of echelon, where you’re doing a few million a month and I wouldn’t
advise that for everybody because that’s it takes a lot of time. And you
need to have that traction, you need to have that that kind of substance behind
it first. So I would say, the best way and the whole reason of Teespring is to get
people like you, who are thinking about this just kind of get up there, upload
some designs and quickly run with it. And you can build your pages in the meantime,
using running traffic, building your pages at the same time. Once you’ve
got those pages, take it to the next stage. So that’s kind of what I
advise people and that’s seems to be the best strategy that I’ve seen working.
From a lean, startup guy point-of-view, well that’s one of the attractive things
about something like Teespring is you can you can build incredibly quickly and utilise.
Yeah literally, you can know something works within a few
hours. You know, launched a couple campaigns, off you go, 24 hours you’ll
know if that design is gonna work, if it’s not and then you can kind of find
your niche. If you’re advertising to woman that like horse
riding, boom, there you go, test it out, get some traction then build it. But if
you’re trying something else
and maybe it doesn’t work, then you’ve spent all their time building a brand
for nothing. It’s not really there. This is something I’ve seen with
Teespring quite a bit, is the whole idea of the very narrow niche targeting,
does seem to be how a lot of the big Teespring brands work very
well. Honestly, things surprise me all the time. Sometimes you’ll see a
design or a shirt and you’re like, that’s never gonna sell and it’s got
like 10,000 sales the next day. You never know, you never know. Yeah.
Bonnie, what is your thoughts on the brand building side of things? Yeah, I would
say honestly it does sound a little bit daunting starting now versus a few years ago, but
have a plan, be very consistent with rolling it out, build a community and
high levels of engagement, either through your comments, through your email.
I’ve seen some affiliates have transactional emails that go out, that
have affiliate links in them that are generating money and yeah, be really
good at social media marketing and I just want to highlight one thing, I feel
like I was talking with someone about this
today. One of the best parts of owning your own property, instead of just doing
direct linking somewhere is, in addition to all the money that you’ll eventually
make by being successful, you can still sell your property at the end for a big
lump sum if you decide you don’t want to do it anymore. Yeah.
So you’re kind of earning twice on it, if you really build kind of for the
long term. Thank you for that great segue to my next question, because yeah,
it’s obvious as a lot of affiliates we know that when we’re building
campaigns, we have the money coming in but we’re not building anything that we
can sell, we’re not building anything that lasts, so a lot of
affiliates are looking at sooner or later moving into products. I’ve just
done that myself, so you’ve obviously, Amanda I think
you’ve actually moved from being an affiliate to selling your own product.
You’re selling, so can you just tell us how that worked? So, my followers just
wanted everything I was talking about, I was like this is crazy, I
mean, I think it’s because I engage so much with them that they saw that that
door was open, they could come to me and ask everything. Oh my boyfriend needs a
new deodorant, what do you suggest? It was just comments after
comment after comment and I was just really accelerating in the affiliate
world. So another brand that I was doing well with actually told me, you just
start your own Beauty Box and I was like, no I don’t want a Beauty Box,
everyone has a Beauty Box but she’s like why? So for the non-initiated and
possibly male among us, what’s a Beauty Box? So a Beauty Box is a subscription
box you get every month. So for me because I’m so into organic and
non-toxic beauty, I wanted to give girls the option of how they could also
clean up their routine. Anything from foundations to household products, I mean
everything you put on your skin absorbs into your bloodstream and that’s just
crazy. I had no idea about that, so most people don’t know about it. My
Beauty Box is six to eight items every month that comes to your door and like a
luxury box that I design, and it’s just full of fun things that they can swap
out their products. So like I said, hand soaps, shampoos, body washes, laundry
detergent, bug spray, basically if it’s a product that you’re using
I kind of offer you that safer swap. So for someone that’s a busy mom or cares
about it but doesn’t have the time to do the research, I kind of do the research
for them. I test out hundreds of products, so it’s only the best of the best, the
products that actually work. It’s not Etsy stuff that doesn’t work, it’s
just really high quality products that still give you that performance of
conventional products but that are at least 98% natural or above. So
doing so well with my affiliate program lead me to the Beauty Box. Now I’m selling
you know hundreds a month, I would be selling more if I wasn’t building them
with my own hands. So is that what the limiting factor when
scaling? It’s literally being able to supply the things? Yeah. Okay that’s really interesting.
Craig obviously, you’re from an interesting point here in that you’re pretty much here to
evangelise having your own product to us, so, go. Yeah again, it depends what you
want to do right, everybody has different objectives, and goals, and
what they want to do, but what I will say is you know if you were to rewind three
years ago, Teespring was built out of a university or college experiment, where
our founder was trying to get some t-shirts made for a local dive bar
that they were trying to save, and now it’s grown into this, hundreds of
millions of dollars a year industry, and that was because of internet
marketers, affiliate marketers, coming on to try and build their own products, sell
their own products without all the hassle of having to deal with logistics
and the printing, like what you said right, you don’t wanna have to pack your own boxes
and stuff. So that’s exactly what we do, we’re like this kind of hybrid of your
landing page, your online business, we’re the whole fulfillment engine behind that
and I mean, I could tell you all about it but the numbers speak for themselves.
I think most people here know about Teespring
and that is because so many of the affiliate internet marketers are moving
over to this kind of, build your own sort of physical products. And are you
finding they stick? Because that would be an interesting question if
you’re if you’re going for grass is greener approach, you’re an affiliate and
you’re moving to let’s make my own product, do they do they stick to that
and go actually this is better, or do they after a while, go no, you know
what we don’t do affiliate products. It depends, I mean, I would say for the most part, no.
But that maybe on an individual level again, it’s like, are they’re resilient
enough to kind of give it a good go. We’ve had people doing this for
three years now, and they’re usually the guys that make
the most money, so, you know you’re transitioning from kind of just driving
traffic to actually owning your own business, and when you’re owning your own
business and kind of that’s when it becomes a lot more complicated, and you
need to have a little bit more of a mind shift, in terms of like resilience and
just keep on going, keep on going, until something works. I wouldn’t say,
the majority of people don’t make it, but the ones that stick at it, the
majority of those ones do. Just like in affiliate marketing. So,
Bonnie you’ve got an interesting perspective in this because about half
of your work is with the kind of affiliate model and obviously the
Shopify is primarily allowing people to create their own businesses, so
from your point of view, what would you say about affiliates transitioning into
owning their own running their own product or owning their own properties? Oh
gosh, I think a lot of different entrepreneurs are doing it across the
board, we are meeting affiliates at other affiliate conferences that also have
Shopify stores. Shopify is a commerce platform and one of our dropshippers is
Teespring, so we work with companies like his that allow you to basically launch a
brand without any inventory, and still have your own identity, and have your own
look. But yeah, affiliates are doing it, entrepreneurs are doing it,
companies like her firm are doing it, in addition to their existing affiliate
marketing efforts, seems to be a very hot thing right now, and it’s easy, we make it
really easy. Yeah I would actually agree with that, I’ve been consulting with the
client using Shopify and it is a lovely grant. And well I think we could
probably keep on talking about this for hours, I know that there were an awful
lot of questions and interest about particularly the transitioning of
products but I am afraid we have run out of time. So with that,
I’m going to say thank you very much to Amanda, to Craig, to Bonnie.
This has been really great and good luck with all of your respective projects.
Thank you.

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